Sorry for the late posting, folks, but sometimes real life and work intrudes.
That said, I’d like to point y’all towards a new debate going on some of the MilBlogs.
Courtesy of Sgt. Hook, here’s an interesting discussion over at Blackfive about how military veterans should render honors to the flag. The issue started with an email from retired Major General Vernon B. Lewis:
I gathered some 16 of my old military friends who agreed to sponsor a movement for Veterans to salute rather than place their hands over their heart when honoring the flag, fallen comrades, and/or the country. I have some from each of the four principal services. Three of them were former Vice Chiefs or Assistant Commandants of their services, and several were former CINC’s.
We refer to saluting when we do the pledge to the flag, when the National Colors pass or are presented, when the National Anthem or honors are played, or when taps are played and firing squads or guns render honors.
[…]
Just imagine thousands of fans salutiing at NFL, MBA, and Major League Baseball games when the National Anthem is plalyed. It will telegraph a message to all others of how many have served this country in the Armed Forces—it will be a positive and patroitic message.
My initial thoughts were in line with Sgt. Hook’s, so start there. After that, however, I feel less sold on the idea as Hook seems. Go through the comments at Blackfive; there are compelling arguments for both sides. Feel free to chime in if you wish.
Here’s my worthless two bits on the matter: I’d love to feel justified in saluting and rendering due honor to the colors again. However, I would not like to pretend that I am sacrificing in my life today like those currently in uniform. Also, contrary to some of the positive comments at Blackfive and Major General Lewis, I would not want it to be an issue of drawing attention to the person or total number of persons saluting; instead, I would rather feel that it is an earned opportunity to signify honor to the republic in a different but accepted manner, a manner I miss.
If it was in general acceptance that veterans should salute, I would comply happily. Until then, I will go with what seems appropriate to a mix of how I’ve been raised and my military training. While at attendance in a couple of weeks at my first Frisco Roughriders game of the season, I will stand as always during the national anthem in a modified position of attention — hat over heart, facing the flag. And wanting to salute.
Comments
24 responses to “Veterans: To Salute or Not Salute?”
If the salute meant that you were sacrificing your life today, I would have to agree with you. Contrary to that belief, not only the military, anyone in uniform, cops, fireman, guards, ambulance attendants are required to salute our flag.
I feel we did put our life on the line at one time or another, and have earned the right to do what is proper. I feel that extra effort of saluting our flag is right, if you feel different, thats your right too.
Whatever way you feel is fine, as long as your doing it to respect the Flag of The United States of America.
I am a WWII Veteran of the 82nd ABN. I think a Vet or anyone else is entitled to salute the flag or during the National anthem. But i don’t think it looks ok without at least a Veterans Hat or some sort of Veterns jacket or shirt with some insignia on it. in just plane clothes or other items of clothing I think holding your hand over your heart is perfectly alright.
As to other than Veterans,(and some Veterans and Police or fire personel) in uniform or out, we are lucky to have them stand up let alone salute the flag. I fought for that flag along with my country, and I will continue what I have been doing since I first seen a flag passing by. In Uniform I Salute, out of uniform my hand over my heart.
thank you
I am a vetran of the US Army, a member of the VFW and American Legion. I agree with whughes, if a veteran is going to salute the flag or during the national anthem they should be wearking a hat, shirt or jacket the identifies them as a veteran. If wearing just simple everyday clothes, they should not render a salute, but should place the right hand over the heart as everyone else does.
whydo the military leave hats on while the national anthem is being played
To answer the queation “why do the military leave hats on while the national anthem is being played?”, here are a few things to consider about the way the military does things. (Based on Army Regulation AR-670-1) and my own experience.
For the most part, you never salute without wearing headgear. Military personnel in uniform are required to salute during the national anthem. Headgear is required to be worn outside while in uniform.
(There are a couple of exceptions.) ARMED military people are required to have headgear on at all times (indoors or not). You never salute indoors, except, only time I can think of when someone would salute indoors is when reporting to an officer who sunnons you to their office.
After you are in the military for a while, you kinda get a feeling for what to do and when.
I am US Army retired, and differ with the concept that veterans cannot be told whether to salute. As a veteran of a specific service, I feel that I am guided by that service’s rules and regulations, which do prescribe when and how I am to render honors.
Thanks for the voice.
I am hearing that the bill was signed by President Bush. If so, I would like to know the bill number. I personally am proud to be a Veteran of the USA. I am in complete agreement that we should all salute in Military style to show our support for the troops defending our shores against the new enemy which is terror.
Any help identifying this new bill would be appreciated.
Tom Holmes, Woodland Park, CO
Still in committee. You can track the progress of the H.R.3380 on http://thomas.loc.gov
ALL ACTIONS:
8/3/2007:
Referred to the House Committee on the Judiciary.
9/10/2007:
Referred to the Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties.
As a retired 26-year vet, I am looking forward to this honor of being able to salute my flag–to honor those who have sacrificed so much before me and who are sacrificing now. I am very proud to be a veteran, and if my saluting in public identifies me as a vet, so be it. I will not salute the flag uncovered, however–be it a military themed headgear or not.
Bottom line–do what you feel is right in your heart. Anyone who takes umbrage with your choice … that is their problem, not yours.
I was told that congress has passed a law saying veterans could use the hand salute even if they are not wearing a hat. I was told this law was passed and went into effect 7/1/2006. Please let me know if this is correct.
I support this bill completely. I would prefer to salute as a Veteran when appropriate. However, the bill has only passed the Senate, not the House, nor has it been signed by the President. Until then I will follow the US code and remove my hat and place it over my heart or put my hand over my heart. I’ve heard so many times, just do what your most comfortable with and it’s okay.
I took an oath when I joined the service many years ago, and I will follow the code until such time as this bill passes, and then I will be proud to render a hand salute to the flag once again.
I was outside, covered, at the last Veteran’s Day Parade in Hawaii, I rendered honors to the US Flag by saluting.
I was inside, altho designated as an “outside” activity, uncovered. At a Honor Ceremony with a Silver Star being presented to a close friend, over 10 Bronze Stars, including my friend, several Purple Hearts and other Military action awards. I saluted when the National Anthem was played along with all of the covered Military members present. I was damn proud of my friend and damn proud of my Country and Flag. I felt right by saluting.
At a ball game, I probably would continue to place my hat or hand over my heart.
God Bless America and her men and women in harm’s way.
I am a U.S.A.F Veteran and also share the desire to salute the flag.
It was my understanding that while in uniform and actively serving it is required.
I am not certain what the protocol is when inactive.
Veteran’s are part of this country’s military brotherhood…active or not.
Saluting distinguishes us and shows that we are proud to have helped preserve the freedom for our country that everyone enjoys.
I feel it is every honorably discharged Veteran’s earned right to salute the flag at anytime, if he or she so desires.
I’m a Cold War Vet that served in ’60 – ’63 in the 101st Airborne Division and wholeheartedly support the movement to allow all vets and active militay who are out of uniform to salute the Stars and Stripes anytime and anywhere.
A good dose of patriotism would make up for a lot of indifference out there.
Thanks for promoting this legislation.
Tom
Today (29 Feb. 2008) I received an e-mail response from Congressman Lloyd Dogggett of Texas stating that the recently signed Defense Authorization Act (Public Law 110-181)contains the following:
“Section 9 of title 4, United States Code, is amended by striking `all persons present’ and all that follows through the end of the section and inserting the following: `all persons present in uniform should render the military salute. Members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute. All other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, or if applicable, remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Citizens of other countries present should stand at attention. All such conduct toward the flag in a moving column should be rendered at the moment the flag passes.”
I don’t see what any contention is. I am a U.S. Marine Corps brat and a retired U.S. Air Force NCO. I don’t feel any shame or negative feelings in regard to saluting the flag when in civilian attire.
Why do we need to read more into what the bill says? In part it say: Members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute… It states “MAY render…” That means you have an option.
I consider it an honor and will salute the flag whenever I feel it is appropriate…i.e. parades, National Anthem, etc.
If you don’t feel comfortable saluting the flag, for whatever reason, when in civvies…it’s your privilege to still place your hand over your heart. I would not question anyone’s patriotism either way.
BTW: I only found out about this law while reading my local Air Force base’s latest Retiree Activity Office newsletter. The many vets I have come in contact with had never heard of it and here it is April of 2008. Let’s get the word out there!!
I was taught that “once a Marine, always a Marine”
Semper Fi!
If you are going to do it….. do it right. I see a lot of my fellow vets salute like they were never trained the proper way.
If a Vet a salute is appropriate!!
All veterins regardless of attire and only if covered should salute the flag if desired. We all have served or still are serving our country at one time or another I’d feel great pride to see many veterins saluting with me during the National Anthem, Colors, Taps, and other ceramonies. To see all former vets and active military saluting, you could imagine how many people have dedicated themselves to our great nation. Just my ten cents. OOH RAH America.
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